Perfumer

Hi Sarah, thank you for taking the time to do this interview!

You started your perfume house 4160 Tuesdays in London, UK in 2013 and it has been 4 years since then. How are you liking this new page in life and new profession? How is business lately?

We moved into our building in 2013, but the perfumery started up in one end of our attic bedroom in 2010, while I was still working as a freelance writer and writing trainer for big corporations. That was the most terrifying thing I'd ever done, followed by employing people. I really just wanted to make perfume but now I find myself running a business; mind you I have a great team including Brooke Belldon, who knows far more about other people's perfume than I do and blogs as BGirl Rhapsody, Arthur McBain our resident actor and trainee heartthrob. He's going to be very famous soon but in the meantime I've just signed him as the face of The Sexiest Scent on the Planet. Ever. (IMHO).

I recently got back into some very serious making because I've had some fascinating commissions from lovely people (not least you, Victor, and Macaque), but there's Underhill for Misc. Goods Co., Damn Rebel Bitches for Urban Reivers, a couple of very secret private commissions, and two scents to celebrate a woman swimming from England to France to raise money for refugees. There are another few collaborations coming up which I can't tell you about yet, but I do love working with other people to make their ideas happen.

We're poised to double the space we have by moving into next door's building too. I need to run more making workshops and with more people as they all sell out now, after The Guardian wrote a piece about them. We'll have bottling, packing and shipping next door, and my lab and the workshop are in the current one (if it all goes well).

I'm also working with the Facebook Group Mrs Gloss & The Goss; we're on to our third perfume together and I’ve made them an extra Christmas bonus too along the way. That's group bespoke creation and we crowd-fund it so that each group member can have a scent at a sensible price and 20 of them have a hand in its creation. I'm all for embracing the new commerce, using the internet in ways we didn't have 20 years ago. (Too many business models are based on a 150 year old method.)

So right now I'm not sure which way it will go. It's Pitti Fragranze next week – our first time – then there are the workshops, bespoke, collaborations and our online shop.

I see that there are a lot of fans of 4160 Tuesdays raving about your perfumes on your Facebook page. Do you have something to say to them?

Hello! Come and visit.

Really I'm delighted by all the mentions we get, and I can't always keep up. My husband Nick aims to keep track of them, and to point me in the direction of any questions I need to answer.

I never mind if people don't like my perfumes, because when you push perfume into areas that people haven't smelled before to make things you hope some people will love, then you're going to get others really not liking them at all. That's to be expected. But when people really get what it is that I'm up to, and go totally nuts about one of them on Facebook, Twitter or their blogs, then I feel as if it's all worth the bother.

I must say it had come to us by surprise that you contacted us and proposed a collaboration in late 2015. Where did you hear about Zoologist and what triggered the thought of a collaboration?

I thought it was quite daring of me. I had no idea you'd say yes and I was delighted when you wrote back. You could have told me you weren't interested. I didn't know. When I got the EauMG best upcoming brand in 2014, you were second so I looked you up. Of course I know Chris Bartlett, that stalwart of the UK indie perfume team, so we'd heard about Beaver. Chris does a lot of PR for you over here. Then one day I saw that you'd got distribution in Poland and I thought “Wow, I want to work with that man; he's getting his fragrances everywhere!”

Did you enjoy the collaboration?

It was excellent working with you. What was great was that you warned me about wanting lots of mods (perfume prototypes) and not being able to make up your mind, so I was expecting that. I was delighted that you said Macaque was like nothing you've ever smelled before because I feel that this is my perfume role in life. I'm just not interested in releasing fragrances which smell like other people's, not on purpose anyway. Getting permission to make something unique and still wearable was right up my street. What shall we do next?

At the beginning we had spent good amount of time brainstorming which animal to make a perfume of. Ultimately we picked macaque. I know that you love monkeys. Can you tell us more about that?

I'll send you a photo of me and my toy chimpanzees when I was a child. I studied primatology at university too. What's not to love about monkeys and apes? Gorillas are peaceful, misunderstood and endangered; so are orang utans - we visited a rescue centre in Borneo - while chimpanzees are fascinating because they're like humans with a weaker moral compass. I'd love to live somewhere with monkeys in the garden. West London is not that place.

Above: Sarah and parents, and chimpanzee "Sylvester"

Perhaps to a lot of people monkeys are very mischievous, active and they love to eat bananas, yet Macaque the perfume evokes a different kind of feeling. Can you tell us more about your design and choice of ingredients?

Above: Galbanum Illustration. Source: Wikipedia

Monkeys are intelligent and fascinating. Neither of us wanted to go for the cliché tourist monkey. The first ones I met were in Africa and they would steal sugar lumps from afternoon tea in the hotel garden. They have a hand to mouth existence, and some species are ingenious enough to form relationships with humans for food. Macaques are one of them. They come to temples because people leave offerings of food there. The Japanese ones don't eat bananas because they don't grow in Japan. Many people joked "What's it going to smell of? Bananas?" imagining I hadn't heard that before. Ours wasn't going to be a cartoon monkey. So yes to the fruit and vegetable smells, but yuzu and apple. Next, the scents of a Japanese temple. I've been to several in Kyoto, Tokyo and Kamakura so I had an idea of where to set it. Incense making is an ancient craft in Japan. They have whole shops devoted to it and some handmade precious ones are $1000 a box. They are made with as many different materials as we make fine fragrance. I wanted to honour that tradition by using woods and spices including frankincense and cedar. Then there is the warm furry smell of the monkey himself. They wash and groom so the ones I've been close to smelled more like fruity cats than strong animalic perfumes. Galbanum is for the carefully trimmed foliage. I remember John Stephen saying that he thinks galbanum is the sadly underused in modern perfumery and when I was on one of Karen Gilbert's courses in 2011 she recommend galbanum as a material which always seems to answer the question, "What's missing?"

Like other non-industry perfumers I started by learning about naturals then added synthetics to my scent vocabulary (olfacabulary?) to achieve effects which aren't possible with naturals. There are so many interesting naturals in Macaque that without synthetics it would be too intense to wear, even for you Victor. Now that my perfumery is big enough to attract attention I'm getting essential oils companies and the synthetics suppliers coming to me with new discoveries and creations. With Macaque I was able to use some adventurous new things to create what we wanted.

Do you have any favourite perfumery ingredients and perfume genres? And what are your own favourite creations?

I'll reach for the opoponax, pink grapefruit, raspberry leaf absolute, rose absolute, cedrat, maltol, methyl pamplemousse, mandarine and lemon petitgrains I've just got hold of, blackcurrant, coffee absolute, cognac absolute, cedramber and broom absolute.

Genres: fruity chypres and unusual gourmands. The apple and celery herb I just got in will appear together in something soon, probably with cucumber and peach.

My favourites are Tokyo Spring Blossom and whatever I just made. Right now Rosa Ribes, a limited edition I made for myself, Mother Nature's Naughty Daughters and Midnight in the Palace Garden. (We like smelling that one on Arthur – it's his favourite – although I had Aiden Turner in mind when I made it. Don't we all?)

Recently perfume reviewer Luca Turin described your perfumes as “jubilant and unpretentious, a happy wallowing in the richness and beauty of fragrance materials.” Some people generalize your perfumery style as happy, whimsical, full of humour and of simple pleasures. Do you agree? Did you design them that way so that the wearer would feel happy, or do you simply enjoy making happy-smelling scents? Will you challenge yourself and make something is not typical of your style?

I found out about that blog piece while being filmed by an Italian TV crew for a documentary on a perfume I'm making; I cried with happiness. They filmed a close-up… of course they did.

I started the perfumery to make the scents I'd written about in a novella, The Scent of Possibility; they were all to make people think of a happy time in their lives. So 4016 Tuesdays is really only here because I wanted to make happy perfumes. I widened the scope to make fragrances which capture a time or a place or a concept (and these can be imaginary). With Maxed Out (made for Max Heusler, a Youtube fragrance reviewer) we weren't being so happy smelling. Rome 1963 (for Peroni beer) I made stylist Silvia Bergomi's interpretation of a moment from a Fellini film. When I work with others, I'm very happy to go away from my usual style. I think it's a bit like acting. You can get typecast, but you do like to challenge people's assumptions and your own limits. I think that Macaque is a perfect example of my collaborative style; take what someone else wants and do something they didn't realize they could have.

A lot of perfume companies or indie perfumers choose to release only one or two perfumes each year. On Fragrantica, it says that in a span of 3 years since 2013, you have created over 37 perfumes. What are your thoughts on that? Do you have a “perfumer’s block”? How does the development time of Macaque compared to your other scents?

Ah yes, I'd do one a day if I had the chance, maybe two; I have many ideas. I wake up most mornings with more, unless I don't have any money in the bank, in which case it all dries up. That's one of the reasons that I work with other people, I need to make so I like to share. I was aiming to cut down to two a year, then in April Brooke pointed out to me that I'd already launched eight. Franco at LuckyScent said to me, “Stop. Seriously, stop!” But then in his next breath he got all excited about doing something together so I made him three for him to try out. This morning I got an email from one of our lovely stockists about doing a collaboration with him. Creative block… not yet. There are so many materials to blend in so many millions of combinations.

With Macaque we had to go in a particular direction so I would think and think, then blend, then wait and blend a bit more; then we had to do the shipping thing, and get feedback, then do the blending again so it took a little longer. If you'd been in the room, we'd have cracked it sooner.

Finally, what is your opinion on the current indie and niche perfume market?

I can't keep up, Victor. What's happened is that it's the next big thing with the venture capital companies so like Internet businesses 20 years ago, there's funding out there if you want it as long as you structure your business correctly. Mine is totally wrong for that, as I actually do have everything made in my own studio. Since Frederic Malle sold to Estée Lauder people have piled into niche from all directions. You've got the big guys making “niche” fragrances - meaning that they only sell it in a few shops and charge four times more than they do for their mass market lines. They do it because they've seen that the only area of the market that's growing is niche so they're going to control it. You've got small ambitious brands setting up, all with their venture capital funding, their concepts and stories and innovative packaging, and they go to the same top fragrance companies as the big guys to get their perfumes made. They'll pay for the big name perfumers too. It's all good stuff, but some of them have surely got to crash and burn.

In the UK Robertet are doing really well picking up new brands as they make fragrances for some of the better known UK niche houses, and do a beautiful job. Everyone wants to get distribution in the same few stores, then to get noticed and get bought; they have their investors nipping at their ankles asking when they're going to get their money back.

For the actual fragrances, I prefer the real indie work. I like what Ruth Mastenbroek is doing, Liz Moores at Papillion of course, Andy Tauer, the late Angela Flanders, Grossmith - who are open about using Robertet to recreate their phoenix fragrances and to make their new ones, Ex Idolo…

Niche, I like Frederic Malle, Annick Goutal, Les Parfums de Rosine, L’Artisan Parfumeur. Of the big guys, I love Guerlain. I admire courage, richness, a vintage touch without an overly classical heaviness, and originality.

You can find it if you try. I like to think we have those things too.

Zoologist Perfumes Macaque Coming Soon Fall, 2016

Inaba san, thank you for the taking the time to do this interview! Would you tell us a bit about yourself?

I am a perfumer and a fragrance writer/journalist in Japan. I used to work as a director of events and exhibitions in my twenties, and those were some long, hard days. A couple of years ago, I left Tokyo, the big city where I had lived for 20 years, and moved to Kyushu, an island located in the southern part of Japan. Now I have settled down with two precious puppies in the countryside by the ocean.

Above: Tomoo Inaba, Tuberose Farm in India

When did you become interested in perfumes? What made you decide to pursue a career in perfumery?

I grew up in a family with a lot of fragrant flowers and vegetables growing in our garden, and my mom and grandma took great care of them, with love. My mom was especially interested in world plants and she would travel around the world to see them in many botanical gardens. So it was natural for me to learn about those plants and their smells.

Ten years ago, I established a fragrance-distribution company, and soon I realized that I needed to learn what materials and ingredients were used in the fragrances. Otherwise, I couldn't describe them to my customers and make a sale convincingly. Since then, I have been very into fragrances and have published more than 5,200 fragrance reviews (mostly on new releases, but also a few on vintage ones) on my website, profice.jp.

Writing perfume reviews has given me great lessons on perfumery materials and helped me become a better perfumer. I think the more works of other perfumers’ I smell and review, the more critical I become of my own work.

Besides writing reviews, I've been constantly studying books on the subject of perfumery, vintage perfumes and the various plants and materials used in perfumery. To better understand the smell of natural materials, I grow fragrant plants in my garden. These include frankincense, jasminum officinale, ylang ylang, rosa damascena, rosa centiforia, cypress, cassia, patchouli, tuberose, immortelle, cardamon, coriander, pepper, vanilla and many more.

Do you have any formal training in perfumery, or did you learn it by yourself?

I learned perfumery by myself. I started 10 years ago, and I am still learning. I often travel outside of Japan to visit distilleries and farms in different countries such as Madagascar (ylang ylang and some herbs); India (tuberose, jasmine sambac, nagarmotha and more); Sri Lanka (nutmeg, mace and many other spices); Tunisia (orange blossom, geranium and more); and Réunion Island (vanilla, vetiver and geranium). I have been to 25 countries for that purpose so far.

Above: Ylang-ylang and lemongrass harvesting and distillation in Madagascar

Are there any schools in Japan that teach professional perfumery? Do Japanese like to wear fragrances?

One school in Japan teaches professional perfumery. About 90% of Japanese perfumers in this industry are “flavorist”, and 10% design fragrances for bath and toiletry products.

Although there are many fragrance lovers in Japan, most of them are satisfied with typical mainstream designers’ perfumes and only wear fragrances occasionally. As a well-mannered and considerate person in Japan, one only wears a couple of sprays, and tries to make the scents barely noticeable, fearing that too much fragrance might make people around you sick. Also, Japan is a humid country, and when you’re wearing a perfume the scent projection, or spread, becomes stronger.

Above: Toomo Inaba's "Perfume Organ"

Can you tell us about the classes that you teach?

I hold several types of classes, which are between 90 and 120 minutes long. In some classes you can learn about the history of perfumes and materials; in others, you learn to create your own perfume or recreate notable vintage perfumes or my original perfumes. They are hobby classes, and my students have no intention of becoming perfumers.

I first learned about you through your fragrance reviews on Facebook. I feel like you know almost everyone in the perfume industry! Is it your passion to meet and make friends with as many perfumers in the industry?

I am passionate about perfumes, and naturally I have many friends who are perfumers. Among them, I have known Stephane Humbert Lucas the longest. I met him at Cosmoprof, a salon products exhibition held in Bologna, Italy 10 years ago. At the time he was starting his own brand, Nez A Nez, with his wife. (Two years after Cosmoprof, the biggest perfume trade show, Exsence, debuted in Milan.)

Tomoo Inaba and Stéphane Humbert Lucas at Pitti Florence 2016

In my opinion, most perfumers don't like to disclose their knowledge. On the contrary, I'd like to open up mine to my friends. I also want to support niche brand perfume houses as much as I can through my online reviews and magazine columns, and also by purchasing their products. As you know, many start-up niche brands don't have much capital or many shops that carry their products.

Nightingale is your debut perfume. Are you pleased with your creation and excited about the launch?

Absolutely, yes! In Japan, you can’t sell your own perfumes or import any perfumes without a license, and you need a lot of money and time to acquire one. People often say that Japanese pharmaceutical laws are the strictest in the world! They consider fragrances and cosmetics the same as medicine. Now, through Zoologist, my perfume can reach different people in the world.

Out of many animals you could create for Zoologist, why did you choose Nightingale as your first inspiration? Are there any special meanings behind it? How do you describe your creation, Nightingale?

Actually, Nightingale was originally created in 2013. It was one of the 50 or more private blends I have created for myself over the years. It’s really lovely and unique, so I decided to enhance and polish it further for Zoologist to publish.

My inspiration for Nightingale came from an ancient Japanese poem, collected in the significant Japanese poem compilation “New Collection of Ancient and Modern Poems” (1205 AD), which goes like this:

The poem was written by Fujiwara no Kenshi (藤原妍子, 994 – 1027), the younger sister of Fujiwara no Shōshi (藤原彰子, 988–1074), who at the time was the Empress of Japan. The Empress had decided to renounce her imperial duties and titles, and take vows as a Buddhist nun. On the day of her ordination ceremony, Fujiwara no Kenshi read to her this poem and subsequently gifted her a wooden box in which she found a rosary made out of agarwood. The box was tied with a ribbon and a plum blossom branch inserted in between.

The strong emotional power of this poem piqued my imagination, and I wanted to translate it into a fragrance. Its central theme led me to choose perfumery materials such as plum blossom, which is associated with the arrival of spring and new beginnings in life, and oud (agarwood). To give the perfume a classical essence, I added patchouli and moss.

In Japan, the arrival of spring is signified by the blossoming of plum trees and the beautiful songs of nightingales, so I thought Nightingale would be the perfect name for this perfume.

Speaking of the “plum blossom” accord, it is something that I have never smelled before in a perfume. Can you tell us more about that?

In Japan, we enjoy "Hanami", the viewing of plum blossoms and cherry blossoms in season. Note that the smell of plum blossom and plum are different; plum blossom is more complex and has an aroma constituent of plum. In Japan, the aroma of plum blossoms has been researched for years, and each fragrance company has their own plum-blossom perfume accord. Plum blossom has several different aromas, like powdery, rosy, fruity and more. I chose the “red plum blossom accord” for Nightingale, which I created seven or eight years ago. In it, some special vintage oils were used, such as ylang ylang from Manila and geranium from Bourbon, distilled before WWII in plum blossom accord and red rose accord respectively.

I have heard that Japanese prefer very light and “unobtrusive” perfumes. Is it true? Would you consider Nightingale a typical “Japanese perfume”, or completely something else?

Yes, that is true, but I never consider the Japanese market when I make a perfume. There is a big difference in preferences between niche perfume lovers and the majority. Zoologist perfumes is well-known for being different and daring, and I believe Nightingale is a good fit in the series.

In my opinion, Nightingale is a unisex perfume more catered towards mature perfume lovers. The combination of rose, oud, saffron and patchouli has some deep and sweet tones, and it’s quite opulent. It might be too strong for most Japanese tastes.

Now that you have a perfume under your name, do you want to design more perfumes for other fragrance houses in the future? Maybe another one for Zoologist? If so, which animal would you consider, and what would it possibly smell like?

Yes, of course. If I get an offer, why not? I’ve always enjoyed making perfumes, and right now I’m collaborating with a senior perfumer who has worked for Givaudan on a brand-new perfume that is not for sale, but just for fun – for both of us.

If I may choose next the animal for Zoologist, it'll be a black bird like a crow or black swan. I'll add patchouli, iris and coumarin and make it a powdery-sweet oriental-themed perfume.

Thank you so much for your time!

Zoologist Nightingale will be available in late October 2016

First, I would like to congratulate you on receiving the Art & Olfaction 2015 Award in the Artisan Category for your perfume “Woodcut”. It’s been a few months since then, how do you feel now and how does it affect your future perfumery work?

It still feels a little unreal, although I have finally gotten used to seeing the golden pear displayed on my shelf! It’s a big honor to live up to, knowing that whatever I create in future will be compared with Woodcut.

In the fragrance community you are well respected for your perfume brand “Olympic Orchids”, but not many people know that you are a university professor and a professional orchid grower. Would you share with us some tidbits about your two other professions? And when and how did perfumery come into the picture?

Tidbits? I don’t have any good gossip that would interest anyone.

I started out in graduate school at Duke University studying the chemical senses, specifically focusing on how information about chemosensory quality is represented in spatiotemporal patterns of neural activity, but later became interested in hearing, especially echolocation in bats. I currently teach undergrad courses on sensation & perception, scientific writing, and psychology of music.

Oddly enough, it was my academic career that got me into orchids because an elderly colleague who grew orchids in his office retired, and those of us in the department divided up his plants. I got four Cattleyas, which thrived and bloomed in my office. They were the only “house plants” I has ever been able to grow successfully. Then another colleague took me to an orchid show, and I got hooked. After growing orchids for over 10 years as a hobby and subsequently growing them commercially for 10 years, I’ve smelled a lot of different orchid flowers. I got fascinated by their scents, and decided to try to recreate some of them as perfumes. The resulting intensive self-study of perfumery started well before I officially launched my perfume business 5-plus years ago.

You have always been studying and fascinated about bats. Was it the reason why you chose bat to create for Zoologist Perfumes? Did you want the perfume to smell like a bat, literally, or a creative interpretation of what a bat would smell like? And in what way do you think you have succeeded?

My research on bats has focused on how information is represented in temporal patterns of neural activity (bats can recognize a species of insect from any angle based on the time-varying pattern of acoustic “glints” reflected in echoes from the insect’s body), mechanisms for selective attention in a noisy environment (our brains and those of bats adapt to high-probability sounds, but are extremely sensitive to novel sounds), vocal learning in mammals (bats are some of the only mammals known to learn their vocalizations), seasonal changes in the auditory system (properties of the auditory system change depending on bats’ hormonal and metabolic states), and other related topics. I’ve published a large number of scientific journal articles and book chapters on all of these topics, and have an extensive knowledge of bats’ physiology, behaviour, and ecology.

I have personally trekked through the jungles of Jamaica in search of bat caves, experienced an earthquake while inside one of those caves, and crawled through filthy insulation in 130+ degree F hot attics in North Carolina in search of bat colonies. (These observations are “for whatever it’s worth”).

Of course I did not want to make a perfume that literally smells like a bat, although some species do have pleasant smells (most do not). What I wanted to do was represent the cool, earthy, damp limestone cave where the bats live, the fruit that they eat, and the clean, musky smell of their fur. I wanted it to be light enough to be like the delicate, elusive flight of a bat. However, when I was working on it I also found that it had the property of coming back at times when I didn’t expect it. I would intentionally or unintentionally wear a little bit of it to bed, and days later I would suddenly smell… Bat! This is appropriate because although it is light, it is also insistent enough to keep circling around the wearer and come back at surprising, odd times on clothing or other things that the wearer had touched. Knowing bats, I think it succeeds pretty well in doing what I envisioned.

I think Zoologist’s Bat is a one-of-a-kind perfume. I really have never smelled any perfumes like it. How would you describe the scent of Bat? Does it fit into any typical perfume genre? Who do you think would like to wear this perfume, and on what occasions? Does it matter?

I agree that Bat is a one-of-a kind perfume. I would describe it as moist, airy, earthy, minerally, fruity, resinous, and musky. Those probably seem like they would not go together, but they fuse into a unique whole that just smells like… Bat. I’m not sure you could fit it into any traditional genre. It’s neither masculine nor feminine. It’s just what it is. Even though it doesn’t fit into any known box, it’s a very wearable scent. I think people who aren’t hung up on conventional fragrance classifications would like to wear it. It has enough of a natural feel to appeal to those who like natural scents, but is complex enough to appeal to those who like sophisticated perfumes. I guess the potential wearer is anyone who enjoys it, on any occasion that they see fit. And no, it doesn’t matter.

One thing I notice about Bat is that it does not have any florals in it. Traditionally even the most masculine scents have some floral accords but they are masked by some heavier or stronger wood, herbal and spice notes. Do you think adding florals in Bat would make it more of a “crowd pleaser” perfume but not faithful to concept of the perfume, or do you think a perfume without any florals is actually something particularly interesting?

I see no reason why perfumes have to be floral. A number of my perfumes, including Woodcut, contain no floral notes at all, and they seem to be quite well-liked. I’m not a fan of floral perfumes on myself or on others, although I do like to smell floral fragrances on plants. Regarding Bat, there are nectar-feeding species of bats, but their habits and diet overlap with those of Hummingbird. In fact, some nectar-feeding bats look like hummingbirds as they hover in front of flowers, occupying the same niche at night that hummingbirds do during the day. The Bat I had in mind, though, is a small fruit-feeding species that lives in caves, so they would never encounter flowers except by accident. I think too many perfumes are designed to be “crowd-pleasers”, thereby rendering them bland and very similar to one another.

Do you have a favourite perfume genre and some favourite perfumery materials? Was there a perfume that you particular liked or found influential before you started making perfumes yourself?

I have created perfumes in most traditional European genres as an exercise, and some of these have been quite well-received. However, I consider working within a given genre too restrictive, so I think I end up mostly going outside standard perfume genres. I am partial to Arabian-style perfumes, if you consider that a genre. I use a lot of woody materials, incense, musks, herbs, and spices. I like to play around with offbeat materials that hardly anyone uses in perfume. I just got my hands on some "geosmin" aromachemical before I made Bat, and used it to help create the cave smell. I guess my general dislike for traditional European-style floral perfumes was one thing that inspired me to make my own.

Do you think Bat is quite typical of your perfumery style? Do you think people who enjoy your scents from Olympic Orchids would like it or it’s actually a big surprise in store for them?

I think Bat is typical of my style inasmuch as my style is often strange and unpredictable. People who like scents like Woodcut, Salamanca, Kingston Ferry, Blackbird, and the Devil Scents will probably like Bat. I hope it will be a good surprise for them!

If Zoologist Perfumes asks you to design their next perfumes, which animals will you suggest?

There are so many interesting animals that could inspire perfumes! Some have been done - Snakes, Gorilla, big cats and little cats (Hello Kitty). I’m thinking of weird ones like Platypus, Naked Mole-Rat (did you know they live in colonies with a queen, like bees?) Termite, Raven (too close to Blackbird?), Hyrax, Shark, Hydra, Dodo, Tyrannosaurus rex, Brontosaurus, Woolly Mammoth and other extinct animals, Silkworm, Kangaroo, Koala, Penguin, Parrot, Whale, Bird of Paradise, Komodo Dragon, Chameleon, Sloth, Spider, Scorpion, Armadillo, Hedgehog, Alligator or Crocodile, Cicada, Bullfrog, Treefrog, Woodpecker, Dung Beetle (maybe not!), Opossum, Moth, Octopus, Squid, Slime Mold, … the list could go on and on …. and, of course, Human (what would that smell like? Auto exhaust, laundry musk, tobacco and marijuana smoke, fast food, a plastic phone case …) .

Wow, you have inspired me! Thank you so much for creating Bat for Zoologist and taking the time to do this interview!

Photo by Lucien Knutesen.

Could you tell us something about yourself and your passion for perfumery? When did you first start making perfume?

Hi, Victor, and thank you for your good questions! I grew up in a Bohemian art colony where I was culturally and academically immersed in learning many arts; writing, music, jewelry making, woodworking, painting, textiles, enameling, sculpture and ceramics. I was taught a deep respect for tradition, and to strive to go beyond it in both my life and my work.

I first tried my hand at making perfume when I was ten. Unlike most other things I learned at the time, there was no available guidance or instruction, so my first attempts were poor. I set aside the idea, with the hope that I could learn more when I was older.

Molded artistically and temperamentally in a non-conformist community, I emerged with a burning desire to learn new things, meet new people, and explore new places. It required setting aside my shyness and leaving my solitary comfort zone. Professionally, I push myself to compete even though I’m essentially a collaborator. I take pretty big risks, both financially and physically – I’ve been lost in foreign countries, run out of money, missed flights, was mugged in Mougins. But the upside is what Roald Dahl speaks to when saying, “…the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.”

I am literally on a constant voyage of discovery. (Hence the name, En Voyage.)

You have fans of your perfumes all over the world. What do they like most about your perfumes?

If I try to summarize I’ll end up embarrassing myself, so I’ll just mention what others have said - that my perfumes are rich, and have a “wow factor” that most others don’t. They find my fragrances evocative and comforting, always complex and evolving over time. “They seem to have a life force or energy that is very vibrant,” is how one person describes them. “The ingredients are high quality, the concepts and packaging are well thought out and interesting, but that it’s the juice that excels.”

Another person kindly mentioned enjoying my wonderful scent portrayals of women, the balance of vintage and modern in my style, and the richness of detail even in my least complex creations. “These are perfumes made by someone that loves fragrance, and who makes them for people who also love fragrance. They are personal, affordable and meaningful.”

What is your approach to making a perfume?

Each project begins with an idea, followed by blending small amounts of oils in a tiny 5ml beaker.

Theoretically, I see it as the process of alchemizing a story. Some do it by painting, sculpting, writing, composing music, etc. I do it by arranging smelly molecules. It’s mostly a solitary, hands-on activity.

How would you describe the style of your perfumes?

Structurally, my perfumes are classical, although I’ve experimented with linearity. My early years as a natural perfumer strongly influence my work, and possibly contribute to the perception that my work is largely a balance between vintage and modern. I don’t set out to intentionally work in a “style”, and I’m not really sure how to describe what I do other than the above. Style is ultimately an attitude. Gore Vidal summed it up very well when he said that “Style is knowing who you are, what to say, and not giving a damn.”

Do you have a favorite perfume genre and some favorite perfumery materials?

Floral-amber and floral-chypre are well suited to my personal wearing style. So is oriental-amber-vanille. Favorite perfumery materials, hmm. I like orange blossom. And notes that evoke wet air after a thunderstorm. White flowers. Cyclamen. Hay, tonka, liatrix. Vanilla, tobacco, leather. Amber, sandalwood cedar. Conifers. resins and musks. Hey, did I just build a perfume? Victor, there are so many and they are all my favorites.

What were your initial reactions when Zoologist Perfumes approached you to make a perfume based on an animal theme? Was it a good challenge?

I was much honored and attracted by the whimsy and humor of the concept. Collaborating can be heaven, hell, or something in-between. Hummingbird has been a lot of fun and a very rewarding experience.

Do you find the theme or concept behind a perfume important?

Yes. A perfume without a theme or a concept is like a book with no plot or storyline.

Could you tell us what makes Zoologist's Hummingbird special?

Like her namesake, she’s cheeky and charming. And she drinks tons of nectars - honeysuckle, mimosa, pear and honey. We’ve given her a cozy little moss nest adorned with pretty things, and a soft blanket of musk and sandalwood to keep her warm and comfy.

You put great emphasis on high quality perfumery materials and it shows. Did you use any special materials in Hummingbird that you feel have made a big difference in quality and uniqueness?

I’m quite pleased with the materials that I was able to source for this project, especially the pear, honeysuckle, and mimosa absolutes from elite manufacturers. I was also able to get my hands on a rare but superbly fragrant and diffusive sandalwood.

If Zoologist Perfumes asks you to design their next perfumes, which animals will you suggest?

Oh I can imagine doing an entire flock of hummingbirds; Oriental Bruce Lee Hummingbird, Ancient Oudh Forest Hummingbird, Vlad the Impaler Hummingbird… But seriously, I love birds and animals both, so it would be fun to think about.

Thank you for inviting me to be the nose for Hummingbird. Thank you for a great interview!

Thank you, Shelley! Hummingbird is truly beautiful and unique, and I am sure perfume lovers will have another perfume designed by you to fall in love with!

Could you tell us something about yourself and your passion for perfumery? When did you first start making perfume?

Maybe as an Artist in many mediums, you could call me a perpetual “Noticer”. A photographer and artist is often so clued in to observational patterns, textures, sounds, and for me, odours as well. I really pay attention to my senses and what happens around me, and I particularly enjoy the scents around me in nature. I sit outside on a patio just now, in a short sleeved shirt, enjoying roses all across the garden in front of me, while parts of the USA now have more than six feet of snow. Living in So. California gives me great opportunity to enjoy beautiful flowers and scents year round.

I started on my perfumery journey when I moved away from the temperate beach climate of Southern California to the much hotter semi-desert region inland, buying an affordable house. I've been an artist and commercial photographer all of my life, and always enjoyed puttering around in the garage making things, but our new home’s garage was blazing hot in the summer, and freezes sometimes at night in the winter. This made working in the garage making art more difficult, and drove me inside. I began to explore my own desire for a nice scent to wear myself, since I didn’t seem to like a lot of what was available in the mass market, and also had some allergic reactions to some flowers and perfumery ingredients. This was 2005, and I sought out all possible sources of learning available to me in the deserts of California: the Internet, and any books I could find. I wasn’t in France, certainly… I learned from many sources, and many people too. When I started, even Andy Tauer was a part of the early online groups. Now, I moderate for the largest online group of 2200 Perfumers worldwide, and offer classes and workshops.

I launched my own line of PK Perfumes in 2012, and have won almost 30 awards for my Perfumes since.

What is your approach to making a perfume?

Artistic inspiration comes from so many sources, maybe a place, an abstract idea, a romance, a flower, or a really great material. Starting with the idea, then thinking about what else compliments and reinforces the concept. Sometimes surprises walk in and tear it apart, sending it in an unexpected direction, or can work out so very nicely. I think in this part of creation, that I am more experiential than theoretical. Success can come quickly sometimes, or with many months or years of trying to make your vision a reality. Perfumery is very contemplative, and also then, much patience is often required.

How would you describe the style of your perfumes?

Layered, textural, orchestral, rich, opulent, graceful and beautiful. And full of fantasy…

I liken perfume composition to composing a symphonic score, with main instruments, supporting and background players, voicing different notes and melodies with contrasting harmonies, and that unfolds and develops over a protracted period of time. Time has been a favourite element of many of my artworks, and it certainly plays a large part in my perfumery.

What were your initial reactions when Zoologist Perfumes approached you to make two perfumes based on an animal theme? Was it a good challenge?

The driving concept of the line was so very intriguing and challenging both. Animalic type perfumes seem to have suffered from a reactionary sentiment about using real animal elements. Since Zoologist Perfumes respects animals so deeply, and the perfumes refrain from using animal derived ingredients, there’s the challenge for me to both mimic and honour each animal, their environment, and the mythos surrounding them. Zoologist Perfumes therefore offers a unique opportunity to celebrate a somewhat ignored market segment in new and interesting ways.

Could you tell us what makes Panda and Rhinoceros special?

Composing Panda was a great and interesting confluence of fresh watery green notes, with Bamboo and Zisu leaves with their super bright green odour of perillaldehyde, plus beautifully interesting and different florals for me to employ (osmanthus, orange blossom, and lilies), and other unusual Asian natural materials like buddha’s hand citron, Sichuan pepper, and Pemou root. For me, there’s quite a romance surrounding Panda’s, with the abstraction and realities of China, and incense flowing into the streets from different temples and stores. It was really great to tap into this romance in composing Panda. Panda took quite a number of trials to get to the balance of what is now the final formula. Panda truly had to get worked out…

Rhinoceros, as Victor Wong at Zoologist Perfumes envisioned it, was a little different than I might have personally started from, and the different perspective that Victor brought was refreshing and I thought was a brilliant directive to work out. I quite surprised both Victor and myself, by getting quite close to what is now the finished fragrance formula, on the first trial. The rest was refining it, and then giving it the twist of rum in the top note that we initially didn’t have in the concept. And I really loved working the herbal aspects of Rhinoceros that were tailored to Victor’s initial vision and direction.

If Zoologist Perfumes asks you to design their next perfumes, which animals will you suggest?

Let’s see… We’ve done animals from North America, Africa, and Asia… How about something summery, colourful, and tropical for launch next summer? But I also could easily see a big cat, like Tiger, Lion. Leopard, or Cheetah, and a Fox, either a Red Fox, or Fennec Fox.

Could you tell us something about yourself and your passion for perfumery? When did you first start making perfume?

Making perfume has been a lifelong interest, going back to my early teens. Like many people I started by blending essential oils. I read-around the subject extensively - in those days I virtually lived in the library - we're spoiled now that the internet makes access to knowledge so much easier. By the time I was in my early twenties I'd made my first 'real' perfume as a gift for my mum - I rather suspect it was dreadful, but she wore it a few times anyway.

Shortly after that I got a proper job and pursued a career first in IT, later customer satisfaction, leadership, national security by way of intellectual property, human networking, training, sales and Government relations (I still do some consulting in most of those areas). Perfumes continued to be an interest in the background throughout this period, but wasn't my primary focus and I did a lot more buying than making. The background I gained in legal and regulatory frameworks has proved helpful in getting to grips with the many rules and regulations that surround perfumery, and a there's some other carry-over in terms of some of the basics of running a business in retail that have stood me in good stead. Even so it's hard to imagine a bigger change than between national security and fragrance creation.

One thing I have found is that understanding requirements is much the same whether you are selling a big computing deal or designing a bespoke perfume: it’s all about asking the right questions and listening carefully to the answers.

Along the way I discovered it was possible to get some formal training in making perfumes, and what's more I could get it from the perfumer who made an exclusive personal perfume for HM The Queen - with qualifications like that who could resist? My partner bought the first course for me as a birthday present and there was no stopping after that.

I was made redundant for the second time and it seemed fated that it was time to return to the early passion and make something of it: so I started making things I thought might sell and as luck would have it, most of them did… so I made more, learned more and that cycle continues: the more you learn the more you realise how much you don't know. I've always been driven to collect knowledge - whether of the not-much-use-except-in-trivia-competitions variety or the more directly applicable sort - I can't imagine stopping that until I'm packed into a (scented) pine box!

What is your approach to making a perfume? How would you describe the style of your perfumes?

I suppose it’s intuitive in the sense that I sort of know what to put together to get an effect, although there’s a fair bit of analysis there too: I start any new fragrance with a list of potential ingredients in a spreadsheet. Actually that’s not true because before that it’s an idea in my head that gradually develops into ingredients, that then get listed in the spreadsheet with first draft proportions. It’s only once I’ve spent quite a bit of time with the fragrance in this virtual state that I make up the first version. When I say quite a bit of time, that can be a couple of days or months depending on how hard I’m finding it. Once the first version is made then it’s either a case of chuck it out and start again or tweak to get to the scent I imagined. Tweaking can be a few versions or dozens – depending on both me and the client, if there is one.

What were your initial reactions when Zoologist Perfumes approached you to make a perfume based on an animal theme, and a perfume named "Beaver"?

Well to start with it’s always flattering to be asked to realise someone’s concept, to turn a dream into reality: it’s a great privilege to be able to do that. In this particular case though there was also the animal theme, which I loved from the start: animal ingredients have been a traditional part of the perfumer’s palette for generations (now mostly replaced with synthetic equivalents for ethical reasons) but it’s uncommon for any fragrance since the 18th century to feature animalics as the main theme.

But then there’s the beaver business and I must confess I was in two minds about that: the common euphemistic use of the term made it impossible to avoid a snigger at the idea, but the brief made it clear that what we were talking about here was the Canadian national animal – not just any animal and not a comedy fragrance: that made it a great challenge that I enjoyed working on.

I’m still hoping to be asked to do Arctic Fox by the way – one of my dogs (Jazz) does that characteristic pounce we’ve all seen arctic foxes do on wildlife documentaries – it reminds me of the idea every time I see her do it.

Could you tell us what makes Beaver special? Is it a big deviation from other perfumes that you've made in the past, or even from most perfumes in the market?

Beaver is first and foremost an animal fragrance: a complex of musks and animalic materials. I wanted to capture the claustrophobic closeness of the inside of the den as well as watery notes to reflect the beaver’s well known practice of damning and of course some distinct woody notes to get the sense of the felled trees used in building. But most of all it’s the animal: not dirty (beavers are in and out of water all the time after all) but not sterile or washed either. There are a few animalic fragrances on the market, a very few, but there’s nothing quite like Beaver: he’s a very civilised, sophisticated chap, but he’s still an animal for all that.

Castoreum has been a common musky ingredient for perfumes for decades. What is its special property and what role does it play in the Beaver perfume?

Castoreum is one of the traditional animal ingredients – very few perfumers now use the natural extract of beaver glands – there are no animal parts in Beaver. However I did use a very fine quality recreation to give the uniquely leathery-musk, faintly sour scent that is so uniquely beaver, it just had to be present in Beaver. Unlike Civet there is no faecal quality to castoreum, it’s clean but darkly animalic and very, very interesting: it adds a wonderfully complex undertone to the play of water, wood, musk and maple leaves that make up the heart of this characteristically Canadian scent.